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Features for the next stable release (xzero 1.9?)


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#1 diabol

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:12 AM

We have so far we've had a few release-candidates and some big wishlists of a nice set of features.

Now I'm all in favor of slowly moving toward a feature-freeze for the next release.

 

The idea is to have a target set of stable features as the goal for the next release.

So when these features are done, all we do will be squashing bugs until they are stable.

That way we can ensure some quality and compatibility before we move on to the next target.

 

The constants so far are:

  • Menu overhaul (since I'm already working on that)
  • Installer (since Moj ist working on that)
  • Modern gradients in plugins (xzero has so much fun with this one)

The question now is:

Which other features should we implement and stabilize for the next release?

 

Post your suggestions in this thread. In a week I'll collect them into a poll :)

 

EDIT

Also there's the question of the version number.

Since most of the post-bblean builds have assumed 1.8 at some point or another, I would suggest to skip it and go straight for 1.9.

Afterwards, if we feel up to it we can target 2.0 or cheat the linux way with 1.10, 1.11, etc. :D



#2 diabol

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

The collected suggestions so far are:


    [*]Typeahead on menus (a la fluxbox)
    [*]Fix workspace model (it tends to lose windows, not good)
    [*]bro@m event system (like window.onDeskChange: @MakeSticky $window$)
    [*]Configs in user-directories (in addition to their current location)
    [*]MOAR THREADS (asynchronous loading to increase responsiveness)
    [*]32bit pluginloader (this is a beast, but it's slowly coming along)
    [*]Layered windows (separate alpha for foreground/background, alpha-blendable gradients)
    [*]Build system: MinGW support for 64bit, testing on Eclipse
    [*]Integrate a Unit testing framework into the build with 100 tests to launch
    [*]Unicorn mode (???)
    [*]Mouse bindings for bbKeys (http://blackbox4wind...use-keybinding/)
    [*]Modern Graphics
    • Split/Mirror/Wave/Block gradients
    • Interlaced colors
    • Gradient borders
    • Bitmap support for stylable elements a la OpenBox
    • Dropshadows for everything
    • Different Backgrounds for different virtual desktops
    [*]Windows 8 support
    • Replacement method for invoking applets (wifi and control panel come to mind)
    • Generally better appstore app support (whatever that means)
    • Something akin bbLeanSkin to get Aero-windows correctly themed (would also help on W7)
    [*]Picking a set of plugins and polishing them (not sure which yet, but we can't possibly polish 40 plugins for now)
    • Plugin overhaul: bbInterface (Winamp album art, better scripting, graphics upgrade)
    • Plugin overhaul: bbLua (Extend bindings to whole bbapi - i expect to see some conky ports :P)
    • Plugin overhaul: bbLeanBar/bbLeanBar+/Xob SystemBar/SystemBarEx (merge features. i suggest bbZeroBar)
    [/list]

#3 pitkon

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:34 AM

Being a themer and not a dev, my wish list has more to do with looks than with anything else. But I believe that, since the end user will benefit from all that, impressive looks may stir more interest among non-users and bring more people to Blackbox. It's funny, but due to the fact that there were so many flavors around and so little development has been done since 2008, most users are not even familiar with split and mirror graphics and all the other modern goodies. And it's weird seeing a really old build, like BBLean 1.17 with just a few embellishments, being the most popular BB flavor around.  I have posted my wish list elsewhere so I won't repeat myself. But what's important to me is:

1) Modern style graphics: split and mirror gradients, plus block and wave from unkamunka's build. Interlaced colors and gradient borders would be nice too, and I see XZero450 is working on that.

2) BBinterface: The plugin that can really make the difference, desktop-wise. Winamp album art is a must, thank you, diabol, but a general re-haul wouldn't hurt. I have played with bbi for more than 10 years and I've authored more than 500 scripts, so I know what's lacking. If anyone wants to work on bbi, I would gladly help him with my experience and my ideas anyway I can.



#4 diabol

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:08 PM

@pitkon

Integrated your stuff.

 

For the poll, I plan to elaborate every point with a detailed description, estimated amount of work and mockup graphics.

Soo, it would really help if you would point out the major pains of bbinterface script authoring :D

 

Also, even if something does not get picked for the next release, it will really help the release after that if we have a detailed problem description :)


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#5 passing_by

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:31 PM

Moar threads to prevent problematic apps from making blackbox unresponsive.


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#6 pitkon

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:48 PM

@pitkon

Integrated your stuff.

 

For the poll, I plan to elaborate every point with a detailed description, estimated amount of work and mockup graphics.

Soo, it would really help if you would point out the major pains of bbinterface script authoring :D

 

Also, even if something does not get picked for the next release, it will really help the release after that if we have a detailed problem description :)

In the case of bbi, there are no real problems, just things that can be added. With the exception of Winamp album art which could require some work, the other stuff can be rather easily utilized imho. I'll will prepare a list and get back to you ASAP :)



#7 meanmechanics

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

Like Pete, being a themer, I can only suggest things that's of interest to me; I'd really like a unified and more modern system bar. I like systembarex because I can configure bar thru menu on the fly, I like bbleanbar or bblbar+ because of the the send to switches, I like xoblite systembar cause I have a button to switch on/off tray and since bb4 it has some "verticality" like boxbar, I like awesome wm bar because it has a pager and some things I don't dare speak here.


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#8 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:22 AM

i totally agree about the pager and i will add that sooner or later to at least bbleanbar.

atm i don't use workspaces, but once my windows desktop looks and works like dwm, i totally will

also, in the faaaaaar future i want to kind of merge blackbox4windows and blackbox (for linux), so that bb4w can also skin and manage local x11 windows



#9 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

Why do we need a pager on the bar? Just asking. I mean we have toolbar.label and arrows to change workspaces with. If we need something more elaborate there is bbpager, right? And the latest version, the one unkamunka did for his bb4winmod, even allows for split and mirror graphics - only it doesn't work on XZero's build :(



#10 passing_by

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:47 AM

Better workspace model. Current one shows and hides windows as workspaces switch. Some of the windows tend to get lost along the way, (console) apps don't always release focus or do other crazy, focus-related things.



#11 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:47 AM

Why do we need a pager on the bar? Just asking. I mean we have toolbar.label and arrows to change workspaces with. If we need something more elaborate there is bbpager, right? And the latest version, the one unkamunka did for his bb4winmod, even allows for split and mirror graphics - only it doesn't work on XZero's build :(

http://dwm.suckless.org/

 

It's one of the best and most minimal window managers for *nix.

And if I get a pager on my bar, then I can make it look and feel a little more like my fav window manager :)

 

It is true that we have bbPager and bbIconBox, but sadly there is no way to merge bbLeanBar and either of these into a single bar.

Especially since bbLeanBar ignores the slit ._.



#12 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

Guys, do you think this stuff is 2014-ready? I mean is this the way we're going to compete against Windows' 7 and 8 goodies? We need something much more spectacular than that, at least imho... As for merging bbpager or anything else into a single bar, of course you can do it. Just create a bbi frame and add bbleanbar, bbpager (with a fitting configuration) and whatever else you need on it. Remember, bbi is the future, wish TCL was a bit more user-friendly...



#13 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

Well, unfortunately I can't get a bbi frame to host bbleanbar.

I guess it only supports slittable plugins



#14 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:21 PM

Well, unfortunately I can't get a bbi frame to host bbleanbar.

I guess it only supports slittable plugins

I have done it tens of times :) No issues whatsoever. You want me to post a screenie?



#15 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

Attached File  bbleanbarinbbi.PNG   18.05KB   7 downloads

Here is a bbi frame I created in just 10 minutes. Contains bbleanbar, bbpager with a suitable configuration, plus some input sliders and a Blackbox options button for good measure :)



#16 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 02:44 PM

I have done it tens of times :) No issues whatsoever. You want me to post a screenie?

 

I want you to post a configuration :D

Now I'm curious. Does that work with transparency?



#17 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:01 PM

Guys, do you think this stuff is 2014-ready? I mean is this the way we're going to compete against Windows' 7 and 8 goodies? We need something much more spectacular than that, at least imho... As for merging bbpager or anything else into a single bar, of course you can do it. Just create a bbi frame and add bbleanbar, bbpager (with a fitting configuration) and whatever else you need on it. Remember, bbi is the future, wish TCL was a bit more user-friendly...

 

Btw, I do not want to compete with either Windows 7 or Windows 8 goodies in either way.

Not having their goodies and still being usable is the biggest spectacle I need.

 

However I do remember how much i squealed back in the day whenever a new version of bb or a plugin was released, no matter how small the change, and I would like to give some of that back to the community.

 

Hence this thread and the poll following it.


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#18 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

I totally agree and I commend you for it. If I came out too strong, I apologize. You are one of the few developers still active out there and we all owe you a lot, guys. Please, don't misunderstand me. It was just a first reaction.



#19 pitkon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:31 PM

I want you to post a configuration :D

Now I'm curious. Does that work with transparency?

Here is the bbi script:

!---- Frame7 ----
@BBInterface Control Create Frame Frame7
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 X 53
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Y 221
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Width 1518
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Height 52
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsToggledWithPlugins true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsOnAllWorkspaces true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 DetectFullScreen false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsOnTop false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 AutoHide false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsSlitted false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 IsTransparent false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 Transparency 100
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame7 MakeInvisible "Never"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame7 HAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame7 VAlign "Top"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame7 HasTitleBar false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame7 IsLocked false
 
!---- Frame7::Frame8 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Frame Frame8
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 X 112
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 Width 1096
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 Height 48
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 Border false
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame8 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame8 HAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame8 VAlign "Top"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame8 HasTitleBar false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame8 IsLocked false
 
!---- Frame8::ExternalPlugins ----
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame8 Load "pluginsbbLeanBarbbLeanBar.dll"
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame8 SetProperty bbLeanBar IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame8 SetProperty bbLeanBar Position 0 0
 
!---- Frame7::Frame9 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Frame Frame9
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 X 1210
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 Width 256
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 Height 48
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Frame9 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame9 HAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame9 VAlign "Top"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame9 HasTitleBar false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Frame9 IsLocked false
 
!---- Frame9::ExternalPlugins ----
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame9 Load "pluginsbbpagerbbPager.dll"
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame9 SetProperty bbPager IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control ExternalPlugin Frame9 SetProperty bbPager Position 0 0
 
!---- Frame7::Slider3 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Slider Slider3
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 X 11
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 Width 16
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 Height 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider3 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 Value 0.500000
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 Vertical true
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 Reversed false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 Appearance 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 BroadcastValueMinimum 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider3 BroadcastValueMaximum 100
 
!---- Frame7::Slider11 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Slider Slider11
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 X 29
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 Width 16
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 Height 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider11 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 Value 0.500000
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 Vertical true
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 Reversed false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 Appearance 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 BroadcastValueMinimum 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider11 BroadcastValueMaximum 100
 
!---- Frame7::Slider12 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Slider Slider12
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 X 47
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 Width 16
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 Height 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider12 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 Value 0.500000
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 Vertical true
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 Reversed false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 Appearance 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 BroadcastValueMinimum 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider12 BroadcastValueMaximum 100
 
!---- Frame7::Slider13 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Slider Slider13
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 X 65
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 Width 16
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 Height 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider13 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 Value 0.500000
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 Vertical true
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 Reversed false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 Appearance 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 BroadcastValueMinimum 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider13 BroadcastValueMaximum 100
 
!---- Frame7::Slider14 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Slider Slider14
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 X 83
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 Width 16
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 Height 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Slider14 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 Value 0.500000
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 Vertical true
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 Reversed false
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 Appearance 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 BroadcastValueMinimum 0
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Slider14 BroadcastValueMaximum 100
 
!---- Frame7::Button11 ----
@BBInterface Control CreateChild Frame7 Button Button11
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 X 1468
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 Y 2
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 Width 40
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 Height 48
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 Border true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 IsVisible true
@BBInterface Control SetWindowProperty Button11 Style "Toolbar"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Button11 HAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetControlProperty Button11 VAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetAgent Button11 Image Bitmap "C:Blackboxiconskblackbox2.bmp"
@BBInterface Control SetAgentProperty Button11 Image Scale 34
@BBInterface Control SetAgentProperty Button11 Image VAlign "Center"
@BBInterface Control SetAgentProperty Button11 Image HAlign "Center"
 
Here is the bbpager configuration:
 
bbpager.position.x: 1562
bbpager.position.y: 991
bbpager.desktop.width: 40
bbpager.desktop.height: 40
bbpager.alignment: horizontal
bbpager.columns: 1
bbpager.rows: 1
bbpager.desktopChangeButton: 2
bbpager.windowMoveButton: 3
bbpager.windowFocusButton: 1
bbpager.raised: true
bbpager.autoHide: false
bbpager.snapWindow: false
bbpager.transparency: false
bbpager.transparency.alpha: 200
bbpager.desktopNumbers: true
bbpager.desktopWindows: true
bbpager.desktopAltMethod: false
bbpager.windowToolTips: false
bbpager.useSlit: true
 
And yes, it supports transparency :)


#20 diabol

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

Ok, that's not perfect, but freaking close.

I'll still add a pager to the unified bar, tho :P






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