20 replies to this topic

[crowmag]

You win Pete, I knew you would keep your promise and be relentless in bugging me and besides, I am going to need access to the files here pretty soon.

As you know, I have been using bbLean or a variant for over 11 years non-stop now (been using bbClean SVN since 2008). I am going to have to get a new computer here soon and since I can't get a legal copy of XP any more and I am tired of being limited to only 3 gig RAM, that means I have to go with Win-7 64 bit (while I can still get it). Now, I'm not going back to that Start Menu crap, I would rather get a lobotomy.

So, bbZero is looking like it is coming along mighty fine.

Problem is, I don't see any 64-bit plugins listed here, and I assume that only the plugins that come with bbZero are going to work on 64-bit, is that right? If so, I am wondering what I am going to have to give up.

Here's my plugins list:

[*]bbAnalog - I can live without it, but don't want to.
[*]bbCalendar - I can live without it, but don't want to. A more feature rich calendar would be pretty cool tho.
[*]bbColor3DC - please tell me that "classic" color themes still work on Win-7 All these bright white modern themes hurt my old peepers - retena burn AHH!.
[*]bbIconBox - If this doesn't work it's going to mess me up big time.
[*]bbInterface (iTunes) - I can live without it, but don't want to. Actually, kinda essential to the whole customization thing tho really.
[*]bbKeys - Com'on, this has gotta work, a pretty basic nessecity. Of coarse it works why am I even wondering?
[*]bbLeanSkin - It would be very disapointing and ruin the whole look w/o it -- but function first.
[*]bbMail - Kinda nice to know when your order has been confirmed and your package sent...
[*]bbPager - How ya s'posta keep track of your virtual desktops without it?
[*]bbRecycleBin - Kinda like making it easy to forget to flush your toilet without it.
[*]SystembarEx - DON'T even tell me I can't have my fav systembar!, oh well, as long as there is a systembar.
[*]WinTyler - This is so handy for me I can't even begin to tell you...
[/list]

OK, now break my heart and tell me what I have to leave at the 64-bit door.

 

[pitkon]

So good to see you here Clark, my old friend! You know I am a die-hard, so I'm not gonna give up my XP. Yet. And not without a fight

Now, the good news: most of the plugins you mention work in a 64-bit environment. Maybe even all of them, mojmir will confirm that since he's tested a LOT of plugins on his current 64-bit built (unfortunately, I still use a 32-bit computer but I may switch as well, since bbinterface, my fav plugin, does work under 64).

Glad I didn't break your heart

[cthu1hu]

Hi Crowmag! I'm using all of those here on x64 except bbMail and WinTyler.

[crowmag]

cthu1hu ! How is the ancient and and awsome tenticaled one? I hope you are well old friend. I know you used to use the stock bbLean in the old days but, if I may ask, what version are you using now? Stock bbLean 1.17.1 64 bit or bbZero?

I have only tested the 32-bit bbZero 1.18rc3.5 once I don't use a shell switcher - why??? But not doing so means I have to un-install bbClean, boot into Exploder and run bbZero ontop of it - which is a pain. But, so far, not bad. But a few dissapointments...

One is WinTyler but I got the sources to Pitkon who I am sure will pass them along to the devs and maybe in a couple/six months there will be a working version for bbZero so that's not too bad.

The other is that it looks like they aren't supporting bbPager 3.0b6 (NC-17/unkamunka). The pager they're supporting is not sizeable so you can't make it small - that messes up my layout and will force me to use the new pager in autohide (not ideal for me) and figure out something to fill the void.

Oh well, the world is not perfect...

[pitkon]

The other is that it looks like they aren't supporting bbPager 3.0b6 (NC-17/unkamunka). The pager they're supporting is not sizeable so you can't make it small - that messes up my layout and will force me to use the new pager in autohide (not ideal for me) and figure out something to fill the void.  

But it IS sizeable. Just edit width, height, column and row in the rc file... (You didn't mean bbanalog, did you?)

[crowmag]

It could be that my first run at it wasn't the best planned thing I have done because I took the lazy route and simply copied and pasted rc files (except for blackbox.rc and extensions.rc) from my working bb shell to the experimental one - which did cause a few problems.

For one thing SystembarEx was terribly disfigured and wouldn't change along with a style change. That didn't consern me too much though as bladestaylor warned of problems associated with hand editing it's rc file. It's best to set SystembarEx up via it's menu.

As far as bbPager, I did notice that the updated version does not come with an rc file - it's one of those plugins that create one automagicly on first load. Using my existing rc may have caused problems but looking at the rc after loading in bbZero looks like this:

bbPager.position.x: 711
bbPager.position.y: 994
bbPager.position: BottomCenter
bbpager.desktop.width: 38
bbpager.desktop.height: 24
bbpager.alignment: horizontal
bbpager.columns: 4
bbpager.rows: 1
bbpager.desktopChangeButton: 1
bbpager.windowMoveButton: 2
bbpager.windowFocusButton: 2
bbpager.raised: false
bbpager.autoHide: false
bbpager.snapWindow: true
bbpager.transparency: false
bbpager.transparency.alpha: 200
bbpager.desktopNumbers: true
bbpager.desktopWindows: true
bbpager.desktopAltMethod: true
bbpager.windowToolTips: true
bbpager.useSlit: false

And there is nothing in the bbPager menu to set it's sizing.

I'm going to make another run at it by installing a fresh copy. But this time I am going to load all the rc file side by side, old and new in my multi-tabed text editor and make all changes manually instead of the lazy way. This takes a lot more time of coarse... I have only got blackbox.rc, extensions.rc and menu.rc done so far so it's looking like tomorrow some time before I try again cuz I got other stuff that needs attending.

BTW, got a link to a good shell switcher? - doesn't have to be fancy, I won't be using it long

[pitkon]

Yes, there is nothing in bbPager to set size. Probably unkamunka (RIP) didn't want it this way. I am sure you can get it working.

As for a shell switcher, I personally use ShellOn. Some preferred Carapace in the good old days. They are both here: http://blackbox4wind...stall-blackbox/

[cthu1hu]

cthu1hu ! How is the ancient and and awsome tenticaled one? I hope you are well old friend. I know you used to use the stock bbLean in the old days but, if I may ask, what version are you using now? Stock bbLean 1.17.1 64 bit or bbZero? I have only tested the 32-bit bbZero 1.18rc3.5 once I don't use a shell switcher - why??? But not doing so means I have to un-install bbClean, boot into Exploder and run bbZero ontop of it - which is a pain. But, so far, not bad. But a few dissapointments... One is WinTyler but I got the sources to Pitkon who I am sure will pass them along to the devs and maybe in a couple/six months there will be a working version for bbZero so that's not too bad. The other is that it looks like they aren't supporting bbPager 3.0b6 (NC-17/unkamunka). The pager they're supporting is not sizeable so you can't make it small - that messes up my layout and will force me to use the new pager in autohide (not ideal for me) and figure out something to fill the void. Oh well, the world is not perfect...

Man, I've been wondering where you've been for ages, and I'm a damned worry wart. I'm using bbZero. It's really great, and I'm liking having bbInterface again. One plugin I really miss is bbIcons. It had its problems though and there was only one specific version that wouldn't crash later versions of bbLean.

 

The shell switcher didn't function properly here on Win7 x64, but yee old blackbox.exe -install has worked fine.

[pitkon]

 

The shell switcher didn't function properly here on Win7 x64, but yee old blackbox.exe -install has worked fine.

Works fine for me on my second, Win7 Ultimate, computer And if it doesn't, you can always tweak the registry. There are instructions in ShellOn's help file. Crowmag needs a switcher/manager, not just  a plain BB installation.

[crowmag]

I don't have the Win-7 computer yet, waiting 'til Black Friday/after to bet a barebones and build it myself.

The plan is to get the bbZero desktop just as I want it in the mean time.

So, I only need the shell switcher on this XP box until I can get bbZero working like I want it. It's too much of a PITA to; uninstall bbClean as shell --> reboot to Exploder --> run bbZero on top of Exploder to test --> reinstall bbClean as shell and reboot --> rinse, repeat.

Once I work out the kinks and get a working day-to-day bbZero I won't need the shell switcher.

Still going throgh rc files. So fare I've done blackbox.rc, extensions.rc and menu.rc. Wow, a lot of stuff has moved from extensions.rc to blackbox.rc, it seems weird seeing it there... Now I have to go through all the plugin rc files and compare them side by side and make the changes one line at a time.

What complicates things a bit is that there are two additional folders in my Blackbox directory:

• lnk - This has subfolders containing shortcuts. Some are for bbIconboxs and some are shortcuts to blackbox.exe with various switchs and bro@ms added to the command line.
• usr - This has 3 subfolders; 3DC, bin, icons. I use the DisplaySet program to create color themes and then have blackox write the current theme to a 3DC file. I keep portable apps (color picker, screen ruler, screen cap default rc file editor etc.) in bin.

Thankfully, blakbox can use a lot of relative paths.

The plan is to get everything working in the bbZero folder then zipping it up, moving it to the Win 7 machine when I get it up and running, and then replacing all the .EXE's and DLL's with 64-bit versions. This should work, in theory... I'll have to create text files for all the .LNK (this is the hidden extension for shortcuts) files as they won't be directly transferable but at least I won't have to memorize everything.

Anybody see any faults in my reasoning.

I know that some who read this may come to the conclusion that I'm overthinking things, but when your OCD you have no choice (No!, the mayo does not go there, the mayo goes HERE!, Always!).

I got the whole day today to finish off going through all the rc files, so hopefully I can get things close by the end of the day. Who knows maybe if I finish early I might even do a style file, last one I did was Sept., 20013 so, it's time...

[pitkon]

I don't have the Win-7 computer yet, waiting 'til Black Friday/after to bet a barebones and build it myself. The plan is to get the bbZero desktop just as I want it in the mean time. So, I only need the shell switcher on this XP box until I can get bbZero working like I want it. It's too much of a PITA to; uninstall bbClean as shell --> reboot to Exploder --> run bbZero on top of Exploder to test --> reinstall bbClean as shell and reboot --> rinse, repeat.  

 

 

 I am on XP with ShellOn too, works flawlessly well.

Back in the day, when I was testing two different BB builds, I had this included in my menu.rc

 

 [exec] (-> bblean) {@script [ @bbcore.quit -q | [c:blackbox 1.16blackbox.exe -nostartup }

 [exec] (-> mod) {@script [ @bbcore.quit -q | [c:blackbox newblackbox.exe -nostartup }

[crowmag]

SWEET! I didn't think about using a script. No need for the shell switcher then.

[pitkon]

SWEET! I didn't think about using a script. No need for the shell switcher then.

A shell switcher is imperative, imho, since it catches crashes and never leaves you with no shell

[crowmag]

Well, happy to say I have been up and running for a few days with bbZero 1.18rc3.5 and have a working desktop that I can tranfer to the new pc once I get that built. I'm lovin' it!

There were a few bumps. For one, I had to grab bbPager from XZero450's bbclean-xzero-2012-02-02.zip which has x86 and x64 builds in it. That bbPager uses the same config rc as the plugin I have been using for years. The bbPager in bbZero 1.18rc3.5 uses a different rc file and the plugin has issues.

The settings shown in red below do nothing. They should change the size of the work space windows but you can change them as much as you like and the plugin will only stare back at you blankly.

bbPager.position.x: 1153
bbPager.position.y: 61
bbPager.desktop.width: 38
bbPager.desktop.height: 24
bbPager.desktop.sizeRatio: 20
bbPager.alignment: horizontal
bbPager.columns: 4
bbPager.rows: 1
bbPager.desktopChangeButton: 2
bbPager.windowMoveButton: 3
bbPager.windowFocusButton: 1
bbPager.snapWindow: 20
bbPager.raised: false
bbPager.autoHide: false
bbPager.transparency: false
bbPager.transparency.alpha: 192
bbPager.desktopNumbers: false
bbPager.desktopWindows: true
bbPager.desktopAltMethod: false
bbPager.windowToolTips: false
bbPager.useSlit: false

But, no matter, I've got a working bbPager with a 64-bit build waiting in the wings. So, all is good!

Well, almost...

The only other issue I have is with bbLeanSkin. Don't get me wrong, It skins great! BUT, window titlebar clicks are broken, any changes to the rc file do nothing. The default behavior is for a double-click to maximize the window - for 11 years I have had mine set to rollup the window. I'm old, I am set in my ways, I get cranky easy - this makes me cranky! I hope it gets fixed soon.

But, I'm still lovin' it!
 

[crowmag]

A few more questions...

1.)
What are Outline Text in Configuration --> Graphics and Edit BgWindows in Configuration --> Misc. in the configuration menu?

Enabling Outline Text doesn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell and Edit BgWindows just opens a blank INI file with no commented lines explaining it's purpose.

2.)
In bbLeanSkinMenu.rc there is this submenu section:
 

  [submenu] (Button Glyphs)
  [exec] (Default Buttons) {@BBLeanSkin.buttonGlyphs default}
  [sep]
[insertpath] {pluginsbbleanskinbuttons >> @BBLeanSkin.buttonGlyphs %1}
  [end]

When you navigate to the menu, nothing is shown below the separator, it's just a blank space. Is the ability to change button glyphs via a bro@m ?:

[*]A - a future feature
[*]B - a removed feature
[*]C - a broken feature
[/list]

I tried issuing the @BBLeanSkin.buttonGlyphs bro@m with an actual path to a button BMP instead of the wildcard and it didn't work either.

 

[pitkon]

1) In order for outline text to work, you must have relative entries in your style. (outline.color:)

2) A broken future feature that should be removed

[crowmag]

1) In order for outline text to work, you must have relative entries in your style. (outline.color:)

 

K, got an example? Cuz I put this in a style file:  

menu.frame.outline.color:   #000000

 

reconfigured and looked at my menu. It just stared back at me blankly like I was stoopid and didn't change a thing.

[pitkon]

My bad, there should be no point (dot) between outline and color. outlinecolor: black or #000000 And a reconfigure is enough to see the results as long as outline is on in the menu.

[crowmag]

Well, I tried the following in a style file (and outline text is turned on):  

! -------- outline text -------- toolbar.outlinecolor:   #000000 toolbar.label.outlinecolor:   #000000 toolbar.windowLabel.outlinecolor:   #000000 toolbar.clock.outlinecolor:   #000000 menu.title.outlinecolor: #000000 menu.frame.outlinecolor: #000000 window.label.outlinecolor: #000000

 

and:  

! -------- outline text -------- toolbar.text.outlinecolor: #000000 toolbar.text.label.outlinecolor: #000000 toolbar.text.windowLabel.outlinecolor: #000000 toolbar.text.clock.outlinecolor: #000000 menu.title.text.outlinecolor:   #000000 menu.frame.text.outlinecolor:   #000000 window.label.text.outlinecolor:   #000000

 

and even:  

! -------- outline text -------- *.outlinecolor:   #000000

 

Nada... Still something I'm not getting obviously. --- BTW: Did a forum search for "bgwindows", the only thing it returned was my question above... Did a google search of the web at large for "blackbox bgwindows" and all it returned was "#bgwindows" - something about store maniquins... I guess only the dev's know for sure.

 

[pitkon]

Still using mojmir's BBZero 1.18 rc 3?