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#1 meanmechanics

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:16 PM

1. Bluebox-I'd really liked to see a new bluebox but I understand the "regrouping" behind one build...

2. Wallpaper for each virtual desktop-now that'll be cool! if not in bbcore atleast a workable plugin...easy to configure!!!

3. A minimal blackbox-Again I understand the nightmare behind a sparse code for devs but man it's way too fun for a user like me to shift from builds/forks. It's like my wife's 3 dozen of shoes or the menu in a restaurant. As for the minimal blackbox I don't know exactly what I want I only remember my blackbox on linux was lightning fast but also damn plain. Particularly helpful when you are like me and using other computer than personal. and cross ,32 and 64. :) it's just a "caprice".  


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#2 pitkon

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:24 AM

1. Bluebox-I'd really liked to see a new bluebox but I understand the "regrouping" behind one build...

2. Wallpaper for each virtual desktop-now that'll be cool! if not in bbcore atleast a workable plugin...easy to configure!!!

3. A minimal blackbox-Again I understand the nightmare behind a sparse code for devs but man it's way too fun for a user like me to shift from builds/forks. It's like my wife's 3 dozen of shoes or the menu in a restaurant. As for the minimal blackbox I don't know exactly what I want I only remember my blackbox on linux was lightning fast but also damn plain. Particularly helpful when you are like me and using other computer than personal. and cross ,32 and 64. :) it's just a "caprice".  

1) Why? Lol.

2) Wallpaper for each desktop is feasible since 2005. Try NC-17's bbstyler :)

3) Try BBDeleted...



#3 meanmechanics

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:19 PM

The buebox nostalgia may seem funny but it is the only fork that's really near to *nix box, and bbdeleted is very far from this minimalism. I tried the two back in the days of xp and I was really enchanted by both but for different reasons. Does bbdeleted, now, support 64 bit w7? BBstyler work with mojmir build?? Always sucked with the configuration of bbstyler (Do not account this I'm just a lazy bone, it's a poor excuse). I seem to always miss you in the chat box...jetlag :)


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#4 XZero450

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:07 AM

1. Bluebox-I'd really liked to see a new bluebox but I understand the "regrouping" behind one build...

2. Wallpaper for each virtual desktop-now that'll be cool! if not in bbcore atleast a workable plugin...easy to configure!!!

3. A minimal blackbox-Again I understand the nightmare behind a sparse code for devs but man it's way too fun for a user like me to shift from builds/forks. It's like my wife's 3 dozen of shoes or the menu in a restaurant. As for the minimal blackbox I don't know exactly what I want I only remember my blackbox on linux was lightning fast but also damn plain. Particularly helpful when you are like me and using other computer than personal. and cross ,32 and 64. :) it's just a "caprice".  

 

1. No comment

2. It's been done via plugins for older builds

 

3. At some point there has to be a determination of "minimal". Computers today far surpass what they were 10 years ago and it IS unreasonable for it to be expected that mojmir and diabol will create something that is still fully compatible with the machines from that era. That address minimal in the sense of performance/hardware, if you're looking for a new build without the features that myself, mojmir, and diabol have added - bbLean is still out there.  :wink:


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#5 diabol

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:51 AM

That being said, I already thought about creating a byte-crunching build. optimized for size and speed with the plugins and settings i need built in, plugin and config support and everything else I don't need gutted.

Plus hand-optimized assembly and pe image hacketry shaving off every unneeded byte.

But before that, we should totally optimize bb algorithmically, as there is still a lot of "potential" :P

 

Also I figured if we get a proper mingw64 toolchain up which doesn't crash, die and vomit all the time, we could build a "bbleedingEdge" package which pulls the latest sources from git, compiles them, applies the current config all fully automatic.

Would be awesome to start the system with something fresh :D

 

ANYWAYS, with the latest bugs, "priority features" (for me it's the useless plugin loaders, for moj it's the installer i guess and for xzero it's gradients i suppose) and our current coding speed I don't see either of these happening anytime soon, but a man can dream :P


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#6 meanmechanics

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:16 PM

1. No comment

2. It's been done via plugins for older builds

 

3. At some point there has to be a determination of "minimal". Computers today far surpass what they were 10 years ago and it IS unreasonable for it to be expected that mojmir and diabol will create something that is still fully compatible with the machines from that era. That address minimal in the sense of performance/hardware, if you're looking for a new build without the features that myself, mojmir, and diabol have added - bbLean is still out there.  :wink:

1. I fully adhere and support.

2. Yeah, but for the newer builds?

 

Everything before 3 is pure rhetoric.

 

3. Bblean is still too "fat" for me. Not entirely from the hardware and performance point of view but also from minimal aesthetic concept of being simple, straight forward and "virgin". On the other hand cross platform is for niche users like me. I have an old pentium with ME on it, 300mb hard drive and 32 meg ram, I'm afraid to switch on the damn thing in case it just explode in my face. But I still keep it clean and from time have a nostalgic look at it.

I'm not looking for something as exotic (quoting you "machines from that era") but cross platform 32 bit/64 bit, capable of performing equally on my eee pc 1.66-GHz Intel Atom N280 processor 1GB of RAM as well as my acer core i5 4gig RAM or my boss samsung core i7 8gig. I usually put 5 or 6 blackbox/bblean/bbmean (32 and 64) on my pen because I am myself cross platform. I am always using others pc and from this point of view I don't need anything but a tray and a menu. I know I can always disable most of the plugins, modify the menu to be minimal etc. but this just contradict my pledge for a "minimal aesthetic concept". Don't get me wrong I'm right behind pete waiting for split gradients. Not even talking about split gradients in bbstylemaker.

 

Now 3 also is rhetoric but it come form the heart, my wish for bluebox is only a whimsical desire couple to at least one good question: are you fully cross platform 32/64/xp/seven/eight?



#7 XZero450

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:02 AM

1. I fully adhere and support.

2. Yeah, but for the newer builds?

 

Everything before 3 is pure rhetoric.

 

3. Bblean is still too "fat" for me. Not entirely from the hardware and performance point of view but also from minimal aesthetic concept of being simple, straight forward and "virgin". On the other hand cross platform is for niche users like me. I have an old pentium with ME on it, 300mb hard drive and 32 meg ram, I'm afraid to switch on the damn thing in case it just explode in my face. But I still keep it clean and from time have a nostalgic look at it.

I'm not looking for something as exotic (quoting you "machines from that era") but cross platform 32 bit/64 bit, capable of performing equally on my eee pc 1.66-GHz Intel Atom N280 processor 1GB of RAM as well as my acer core i5 4gig RAM or my boss samsung core i7 8gig. I usually put 5 or 6 blackbox/bblean/bbmean (32 and 64) on my pen because I am myself cross platform. I am always using others pc and from this point of view I don't need anything but a tray and a menu. I know I can always disable most of the plugins, modify the menu to be minimal etc. but this just contradict my pledge for a "minimal aesthetic concept". Don't get me wrong I'm right behind pete waiting for split gradients. Not even talking about split gradients in bbstylemaker.

 

Now 3 also is rhetoric but it come form the heart, my wish for bluebox is only a whimsical desire couple to at least one good question: are you fully cross platform 32/64/xp/seven/eight?

 

2. If the plugin source can be located, then it shall be updated to be included with mojmir's and diabol's build as soon as one of them has it(if they do not have it already?)[Look at me talking as if I manage them, yet I never communicate with them - lol].

 

3. so... You would like someone to take bbLean 1.17.1, do what's been done to my build to get it to compile again, and strip-er down...farther than it already is? Then I completely misunderstood your request, but I don't see how much stripping can really be done to it.. It doesn't really have a large foot print, or that many features to take out.. What little performance that would come from removing over disabling is, exactly minimal.

 

Blackbox hasn't been fully "cross platform", as you say, since XP x64(if it even had full support then) came out. x64 builds did come out, but it was never fully supported. Blackbox itself was made to work on Vista, but again never had full support. There are changes in Windows 7 and 8 that also make me believe that Blackbox is not fully capable of it's intention, being that as of Windows 7 and 8 improvements have been made to allow shells like Blackbox to step into a role they couldn't have had earlier and be more like their *nix brethren. There are x86 and x64 builds that will run on the respective OS', but to say that Blackbox has full support for all of them is a very large order, and since I am effectively doing nothing to assist mojmir and diabol there is little hope the full support, in the truest sense, will ever be achieved[I am not saying mojmir and diabol are not capable on their own, I am saying that to achieve "full support" it will take more time than can be dedicated].


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#8 meanmechanics

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:27 AM

:( Sadly I already knew this state of things. Wishes, wishes!

 

Your last paragraph though reminded me, we were talking  about Microsoft Windows and not some Linux Distro (even so some packages are not "cross distribution" but *nix blackbox is). I'm sorry to have entered such a nebulous zone that every open source project in any domain have, I'd like to assure you I am grateful to you guys for even trying to give us a working bb. I'm just bitching for the sake of bitching, my apologies.

 

so I will only bitch a little more on :

3. I think we are misunderstanding each other on this, my concern is not on performance only, in fact performance is quite negligible. I'd sure like a build that runs below 900kb (I know I'm totally insane and I assume) but I was mainly talking about features sometimes I don't need. A build with only two config files, one for "candy" e.g. style file and one that couple extension rc, blackbox rc (I still don't fully understand why they are separated) and bbkeys [which means bbkeys to be a core feature and not a plugin]. All that strip to a bare minimal functionality.

 

As to why I need this meager configuration, with my actual architecture (core i5 4gig ram) plus my 2 dozen of start up software I suck 5 minutes for a full windows wake up, sometimes I only need to switch my laptop on to see what time it is...I'm planning at buying one cheap laptop, single core and wiping up as much application I dare in win7, go cloud for most software or portable. No heavy adobe pdf pro, no MS office (go online)...hell I'd even wipe out all those useless printer configuration that clog startup. Then I'll be happy, I'd claim back my personal computer.

 

Thanks to take some time to chat with me on this but don't take me serious on this, I'm only half serious.


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#9 diabol

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:01 AM

weeeell, we are still lagging behind on the xp64/win7 stuff and frankly i would like to fully support that before we dive into win win8 problems

on the other hand, i would really like to support win8 because bb working there is a serious selling argument, because usability-wise the new explorer is a big heap of shit (on desktops)

 

and as i see it, with our current speed, we will be stable on windows 7 by the time windows 9 sp2 comes out :P

so our only real chance to get up to speed is to get other devs on board and to that end we have to make developing bb easier

 

development-wise that means cleaning up the code, documenting it and adding more options for development (the current build system enables using different VS versions, eclipse and mingw, which is already awesome) like scripting languages.

i think creating bindings for lua, python and .Net would help us a ton, as there are a lot of people who can code in python or VB, but are too afraid or lazy to touch some hardcore c/c++ code with funky pointer magic every 5 lines :D

 

and well, to attract the attention of devs, we need to get more users and to that end we need pretty screenshots, wallpapers, themes and everything.

 

which is why i think it's equally important to squash bugs, clean up the code and to implement new theming features. win8+ support is currently kinda a long shot, but we're on the right track i think


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